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Now I've written that lot, I thought I'd be kind and give you a treat to listen to while you read while I sleep
TWOTW.rar- Audio stream playlist
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I have read both threads, and as earlier pointed out, this is nothing new.
It is very old, and very tiring, so I am going to try something different and make it apparent why quoting your source will always help you.
We all understand that if you use files you got from your cache it can sometimes be difficult to trace them (it depends on how bothered/lazy you are).
Here is a thread I started on the subject of locating odd files, and what pack they are from, and therefore hopefully the author and full info.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3709 
Lets turn it upside-down.
It is absolutely in your best interest to try to find the original distro, as if the texture or model is so damn cool you have to use it, you can bet your grandmother, that the author has made even more cool stuff that you are missing-out on.
Here is an example where I insisted on tracking down the origins of the cool animals pack, that I mentioned in the link above (and got me so much more).
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3793Everytime I got a step closer I updated my post.
I know have the full info, and all the rest of his packs, and even some of his maps.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4005&start=90#p41679And starting from 1 file (Animal_PACK1.u) now I have all of these due to my quest for 1 authors name (William "Islington" Sherriff);
Domestic_Pack1, Industrial_Pack1, ModernPaint1, RangePack1, RomanPack1, Tree_PACK1, WSBottleCanPack1, WSPack1, and WSWestern_Pack1
http://web.archive.org/web/200502042028 ... Decos.htmlEven though the distros were hard to trace, once I had a name.... GIMME A NAME MOTHERF@*%$?& !!!.........
(sorry been a loong 2 days)
....all I need is a name, a start-point. the map name is useful, as it will come as a zip with everything in it, so you don't have to try and work-out what textures and meshes you have added/removed from your "modded" map.
BUT MOST USEFUL OF ALL IS THE AUTHOR'S NAME By now I am aware that the mapper known as "Spooger" is as useful a name to search for as William "Islington" Sherriff
Sites and projects often die (and often by the bucket-load), but authors carry their name with them, so even years after they may have even given-up UT.
But then you get die-hards who are still there.
I have spoken with Spooger and have his blessing to redistribute, what I have.
Still missing one Gallery map, my next clue was in the name of someone who made a remake (as you have been doing). This person is likely to have downloaded all the files at the time, so is the next logical step, and so on, but I already have more than I could have hoped for.
Finding Spooger's name on a few map conversions in the "TacOps: Assault on Terror Map Pack" like "Gallery (Spooger - converted by r@yden), and ReactorSector6 (Spooger - converted by eXpendabLe)" gave me more unique gamer tags to look for.
"r@yden" is very easy to find, as he is still active, and I've even found a couple more Spooger maps.
I indeed have had to join many sites on my searches for files over the past years, but that is a good thing, as I keep getting the chance to make new friends.
How can I complain at that
I got all that from 1 word, and dead sites, so forgive me if I cannot find much sympathy for someone, who self-admittedly ripped the items from the maps "MyLevel" section, and then Pizzi, it becomes clear in your posts that you are so familiar with "Thunderbolt's" work, that you assume that everyone will recognise his work, How
The only way someone like me would know who made the textures and decos in a map, is if I got the distro with the readme, or read some info on a site.
Mappers do not always include the other authors info in the map config (as you have not), and there is no scrolling credits at the end of a map.
Imagine someone finds your remixed map, and decides they like it enough to edit it, but then have problems with some of the changes you have made to someone else's work. They are going to have to ask you for the fixes, rather than just use the original files
....That is assuming the files are in a distributable format
which brings me finally to ask the class..
OK, class, why do we usually "MyLevel" brushes, guns, mutators and other data
Oh ! a big show of hands there from everyone.
It seems most of us are familiar with "MyLevel-ing" items, to discourage casual re-use of custom work.
Authors like Spoog and Will (yeah, we're on first syllable terms now
) allow exactly the sort of licence you require.
Fire and forget.
Some authors give total free-hand to do what you want, whereas others more commonly issue a "limited" licence.
Shhh! Serious-face on now... WAKE UP AT THE BACK !!!
This is the age-old principal behind, the written and recorded word, music and imagery.
I myself use a limited
"Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License" for all my work.
Read the bit in the middle. That is the important bit.
That is the bit where you simply credit me as the source, and continue with the same licence yourself.
I run a mashup label for DJs/Producers, and I have to be very careful with copyrights, of the producers, of the remixes/mashups even though mashups are free.
The only way mashups can legally exist is by treading a fine-line, between copying someone's work, and being an "artistic reinterpretation" which creates something new.
Thing is. No matter how far away from the original tunes/songs they sound, the authors always quote what it was made from.
If another DJ, wants to do another mix, it is easier for them to start with the same sources the last person had. This make it easier for the next DJ and the one after that, etc.
Imagine how bad a remix of a remix of a remix of a remix of a remix of a remix of a remix of a remix of a... would be, yet a good producer can take all the raw individual elements, of a massive amount of bands, and create something new and beautiful.
But without that original borrowed material there would be no building-blocks for the new work of art.
This is where the collective talents in this place, mirror the professional attitude of my friends in the music world.
In UT99 terms this place is the home of a "jamming-supergroup". Everyone here has something they are working on, or are working with each-other, as and when is useful, but everyone here tries to pay attention to the small details, and how they will work in harmony with others.
Several projects here have changed or been improved with paying attention to each-others abilities and schedule.
Organic team-work, where you don't have to ask to join the cool team to feel valuable or needed. just credited for your good work (and enthusiasm).
This is not much of a "gamers" forum anymore, as it has become more of a work-place, where trolls and idiots are dealt with swiftly, but fairly.
This is not a ban-happy forum either, because we don't need to ban trolls as they quickly get bored and leave.
Look at our off-topic/productive threads ratio. Less spam, more work. and high-quality work. (Look at BuF
)
I've said it before, that is why I joined this site after finding the UT99 CBP2 with UTK4 items and Creavions jungle maps
utr/index.htmlThis is my main temple of learning. It is also a place to relax and throw ideas around.
We are used to discussing right and wrong compared to what is achievable, but the issue of crediting often gets clouded by stupid details.
Very, very simply put.
If you state in a readme "This map was made using stock textures", you have credited DE and Epic, even though you did not use either company name.
If all you can do is say where you found the file, because that is all you know, then say that.
I did when I first found the animal pack.
All I knew was, it was in a load of BBST sniper-clan maps, so I credited all of the maps I could find it in, the authors of those maps, and where I found them, thus starting a connected trail.
Not much, but it was a start.
Pizzi, It would appear you know very well which server you got the files from (as they host the map), and were also aware of who created the items you used (as you say they are so recognizable), so other than this being as ever a topic for discussion, I personally think you don't have a strong case for defence.
*Then like Inspector Colombo, the Doctor walks back in......Other than the fact that, as you have not packed your map for distribution there is no way to put this info in a readme (1 point for the defence).
But, I put it to you Pizzi, that when you right-clicked on the map, and chose "Level Properties" and put your name in, that you could have spent an extra few seconds typing "Decos by Thunderbolt".
and if Thunderbolt has a licence packaged with his distro of the map, that you are in breach of, even though you never read it. It is unfortunate, but you are still liable.
If Thunderbolt is like you, and does not package his work properly, and has no info on a site, then he is liable, and you are in the clear.
but is that the case?
Either way, you should be asking him, if he likes how you used his stuff, and if he can spot anything you missed.
This is the 2 questions on my mind dealing with the CTF conversion I hope to get back to working on soon (Someone punch me, I'm starting to miss the BSP errors).
If your map makes his work look as good as, his work makes your map look good, then you are both winners.
He will want to credit your map as featuring his work, in the same way you should want to credit him.
All I've learned from this, is that there is a Thunderbolt I need to investigate, as I'm obviously missing out on some unforgettable textures and decos.
They better be bloody fantastic, to make me type all this bollocks yet again.
I'm not making any conclusion, other than you and TB, need to deal with this in private, via email, IM, audio or webcam.
Even if he hates your map, at least you can put in the Level Properties "Thunderbolt hated V1".
You can both be honest and move on, but he will still be credited.
Wouldn't you rather have his blessing and help with future maps ?
You may not get on (you can get over it), he may not like you using his stuff in future, but he will care how your maps turn out as the better your maps get, the better he looks.
Don't just credit for others, you'll be doing it for yourself, as more people trust you and want to share projects with you, you will get more credit from others.
People even credit a cool map they played, that gave them a killer idea.
As a little motivation to see how easy (if you know what yer doing) it is to find loads of stuff you thought was gone forever, have a skim of the resurrected tutorials, models and textures I found looking for odd bits and pieces.
http://my.opera.com/Unreal-Tournament/b ... ve-robbing.
by editor Dave » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:43 pm 
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