Bots don't stand still on horizontal lift

[sektor2111]

For fans of "defaults" I recommend kicker (doesn't look so nice anyway) + OneWayPath, else my desireability-lover friend, Bot attempts to return at a random InventorySpot if that "shield" has been collected or is not "Seen" through network, (example StingerAmmo) which cannot be reached due to... Lifts and Shit-Sounding-Door which will open only from inside (that's why I have moved door trigger). If you make End reachable they just react normally forgetting DM type habits because those are not MH goals. I assure you that MHBotyMan3 tells the story about MH, the rest of Bot blabbering is native DM behavior not MH mapping.

You don't even have to believe me, load a map like MH-LiandriInvasion, MH-Templar, and such and input "Mutate MeBot", see what is shown - THAT is the true MH Bot Support fully operational. Red circles showing RouteCache are there pointing the route. No worries, I have done a couple of such "add-ons" that's why I can figure problems by looking only 2 minutes around Level.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

If Nodes are well linked, Bot will try to "attack" MonsterEnd. In our case we have... SHIT. 3 MonsterEnd/s - one of them (I guess the last from iterator cannot be found as it is (Ramp + Wall). In that "test version" they can play it until end. I reduced Ends at a single one a bit higher almost to exit and reachable confirmed with MHBotyMan3 tester tool. So Bot/MBot any have target goal set and they move there. If MonsterEnd would still be a problem, then DM strategy could be alternate option, a ShieldBelt added in that last plane field would convince them to move there - else There is some stuff by FeraliDragon called BotBurger if I'm not mistaking and which also can setup a few interesting routes by triggering Pawn natively in collecting stuff. Default Bot is very greed at items. This map in the way through end doesn't have any item to distract them, else if End is not reachable they simply don't have reasons to roam in last area.

Recall: MonsterHunt uses MonsterWayPoint and MonsterEnd as goals for A.I. which should be able to get a visit form a pawn using default locomotion method, tiny exceptions at teleporters and LE-LC-LE. The rest is myth about MH's Bot support.

Trivia: It's possible to see in v5.04 of MH Bot still heading to Waypoint even unreachable based on a nearby PathNode (credits goes to EPIC and nobody else for Technology used from Assault in case of Higher placed Fort), they will roam around trying to get help from player (or if mapper has big balls will set a Bot_Jumper doing the "Bot-Brain-Add-On") making noob player jealous and more hater toward Bot because of a new sudden intelligence.

I repeat and I insist about doing PATHS heading to these goals else Nothing special happens.

What was happening is that the bots would reach the 1st LE, the lift wasn't there, they would go back to collect pickups/weapon/ammo and get lost between the jumbled maze of nodes/inv That after I managed to get them to not jump straight way.

I've cleaned.and rearranged the path in the beggining, so now they go straight to the LE and stay within the near by nodes. The only problem now is that if a bot reach the LE and the lift isn't there, sometimes he'll get stuck in that LE and block the path from the other bots trying to get to the lift. A shot in the head reset the bot's state, which will get to the lift and cross the gap with no problem as the next bot get in line. Works like a charm, it's just not quite an elegant solution lol Orders do work sometimes, but only sometimes in this case.

With this setup I managed to get them all across on demand with the orders "hold this position" and "assault the base" one by one, but it doesn't fit the premise of the mod at all. Maybe setting up a loop for them to run through until the lift is available, but that breaks the flow of the game aswell.

All that without considering I've deleted all monster except the ones in the last room in order to speed up the tests. Bots will get "jumpy" for sure once they're in attack mode. So, regarding "Bots not standing still on horizontal lift", that's totally doable, the problem is to get 5/7 or so bots to cross at once a narrow choke point in a tinny horizontal lift while fighting monsters lol

[sektor2111]

If you run default MH and default Bot I have a key combination Hold V 3 5 1 = "Freelance" boys and girls. If path is good they works flawless even a moron blocks path there waiting (it has to wait - check MaxDist2D -LiftCenter- for not being too small - if is default 400 leave it alone, else if has smaller values rise it 10 UU if the guy is a bit behind path and check again). This Level is very simple except several tweaks at those "Elevators". Being poor in pickups you can add a shield in Last area but not really with desirability 10 or 10^25, mods replacing items won't copy values so is pointless more efforts pickup based and messing finding inventory handlers.

Bot intention>
I go there, is my goal that NavigationPoint. Ouch, who touched me, ah, you are friend, here you go I'll wait a moment. Okay enough, I'll go there, Ooops again obstructed - and so on until Lift get in position and there are even chances to see 2 Bots getting Lift.

Some timers might be out of timing randomly but relax, Bot won't sleep there forever.

Explanation>
PATH IS available where ever the Lift is located (except custom stuff) a linked path cannot get broken without having chances to crash game - (somehow is doable in ugly way). So Bot is coming there and waiting the LiftCenter point to get in MaxDist2D radius, the rest are waiting and retrying, MH code won't stop them - just check and see what I mean. Why would they retry ? Because LiftExit is not Last point roamed and that point is still busy - taken by a friend.

Now... LowGravity Mentioned by RedFist. Oh, well, Shrimp (MH's author) for MH was not agree with that thing (trying to discard that mutator) as with many others messing up game-play. Bot is not really ready for LowGravity and I'm not bother with computing maths at MBot. Why Not MH and LowGrav ? See Pupae and Skaarj MeleeAttack - pretty lousy and dumb in LowGrav "maps" - Said "maps" because good mappers did not messed that much with such setup (which doesn't exist on Planet Earth after all).

The hint>
There is a tutorial at "ut-files" packed in a RAR archive containing EpicGames bla bla string not PlanetUnreal whatever. That rar has a rip of old EPIC site with explanations about U1 UT things. G00gle won't find explanations. I have added in a server a kind of copy modified where I can take a look at info and probing the truth spoken there. My directives are set to not be indexed as long as I won't keep machine started 24/7 that's why it won't be listed by crawlers, but anyone with resources can setup some work and posting the link for UT fans as UnCodex is. Some of docs have to be completed because are not enough things described. Using direct checks and those Docs I could figure how do works several things.

the problem is to get 5/7 or so bots to cross at once a narrow choke point in a tinny horizontal lift while fighting monsters lol

Yes, this is another story. Actually I cannot imagine in a Sunday Evening a server loaded with 16 Players crawling such a Level - 24 Monsters - surprisingly they don't fell anywhere. It is for people tired playing a SOLO or 3 hunters (1 human + 2 bots) because such a Level is not really for ON-Line gaming, is too poor (as DarkPass). If server has skins and things, new player starts downloading files. Until downloads are ready, the hunters have finished map - Boow!

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

If you run default MH and default Bot I have a key combination Hold V 3 5 1 = "Freelance" boys and girls. If path is good they works flawless even a moron blocks path there waiting (it has to wait - check MaxDist2D -LiftCenter- for not being too small - if is default 400 leave it alone, else if has smaller values rise it 10 UU if the guy is a bit behind path and check again). This Level is very simple except several tweaks at those "Elevators". Being poor in pickups you can add a shield in Last area but not really with desirability 10 or 10^25, mods replacing items won't copy values so is pointless more efforts pickup based and messing finding inventory handlers.

Bot intention>
I go there, is my goal that NavigationPoint. Ouch, who touched me, ah, you are friend, here you go I'll wait a moment. Okay enough, I'll go there, Ooops again obstructed - and so on until Lift get in position and there are even chances to see 2 Bots getting Lift.

Some timers might be out of timing randomly but relax, Bot won't sleep there forever.

Explanation>
PATH IS available where ever the Lift is located (except custom stuff) a linked path cannot get broken without having chances to crash game - (somehow is doable in ugly way). So Bot is coming there and waiting the LiftCenter point to get in MaxDist2D radius, the rest are waiting and retrying, MH code won't stop them - just check and see what I mean. Why would they retry ? Because LiftExit is not Last point roamed and that point is still busy - taken by a friend.

Now... LowGravity Mentioned by RedFist. Oh, well, Shrimp (MH's author) for MH was not agree with that thing (trying to discard that mutator) as with many others messing up game-play. Bot is not really ready for LowGravity and I'm not bother with computing maths at MBot. Why Not MH and LowGrav ? See Pupae and Skaarj MeleeAttack - pretty lousy and dumb in LowGrav "maps" - Said "maps" because good mappers did not messed that much with such setup (which doesn't exist on Planet Earth after all).

The hint>
There is a tutorial at "ut-files" packed in a RAR archive containing EpicGames bla bla string not PlanetUnreal whatever. That rar has a rip of old EPIC site with explanations about U1 UT things. G00gle won't find explanations. I have added in a server a kind of copy modified where I can take a look at info and probing the truth spoken there. My directives are set to not be indexed as long as I won't keep machine started 24/7 that's why it won't be listed by crawlers, but anyone with resources can setup some work and posting the link for UT fans as UnCodex is. Some of docs have to be completed because are not enough things described. Using direct checks and those Docs I could figure how do works several things.

Yup, doubled the Maxdist2D. worked beautifully. 5 bots in 2 trips lol 3 attempts and no falling deaths and no bots getting stuck. No monsters yet though, but I was only interested in getting the lift working. If Barbie wants to use this set up, it will be necessary to place/import the monsters back.

[sektor2111]

Interesting but I'm not using GRAB command at movers. Paths can be reduced a bit.

Edit: Still some troubles

[attachment=0]Semisolid_Recommended.JPG[/attachment]

When I have changed this later to SemiSolid and rebuilding geometry that hole has gone...

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

Interesting but I'm not using GRAB command at movers. Paths can be reduced a bit.

Edit: Still some troubles

[attachment=0]Semisolid_Recommended.JPG[/attachment]

When I have changed this later to SemiSolid and rebuilding geometry that hole has gone...

How come GRAB command, you mean the triggers? lol

I added one at the gate to open as the lift approaches to avoid bots staying on the lift after they managed to get through. I did it in the beginning, now I don't even think the gate is necessary for the set up to work, I just left there in case he wants to keep it that way. The trigger for the lift I added when the bots were still jumping off of it and sometimes they'd ride it at the back. I kept in case I had to do some triggered chain for this to work and also to make sure they get properly centered on the lift before it takes off.

I'm only tackling the issues Barbie is bringing about, it's him (her?) who's interested in fixing the map. I only added the gate to try out your susgestion of covering the 2nd LE and the platforms/fence around to reduce a little the gap and give some finishing, trying to stay faithful to the map's minimal style.
Regarding the path, I only quickly worked the area after the first mover up to the area behind the gate, only to prevent the bots to backtrack and stay around the lift once they get there, there's a lot of room for improvement for sure and I don't even know how it's going to work once he brings the monsters back, still, I might have removed about 10 to 15 nodes of that small area.
All those wacky cliffs need rebuild as well, they're giving BSP errors, that's why I left the brushes I used to fix that one with surface issues so he can see how I've done.

[sektor2111]

How come GRAB command, you mean the triggers? lol

What triggers ? Remove trigger before that gate added. Now watch Bots. They open using GRAB making trigger pointless. Remove that bUseTriggered crap. Mover is TriggerOpenTimed, bUseTriggered is CHEATING which I removed in MH2 types as a mod-option. Really doesn't make sense a door trigger or a monster linked with door if anyone can use GRAB for opening it. I must check the rest if I did not failed to see a left-over one.

[Red_Fist]

I don't like to crow-bar the bots in forcing them to follow an exact profile.
It's more fun and better to let "the program" work, but work within the confines of it. Then manipulate the bots (map) to make it appear to be human.

So using default actors is a challenge.

You lose the point by only looking at code, use the existing code and see IF you can make it work, is the fun for me.ie defaults.

By using maxdesierability or blocked paths, you use the AI and not just forcing the bots to do the same thing every time.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

How come GRAB command, you mean the triggers? lol

What triggers ? Remove trigger before that gate added. Now watch Bots. They open using GRAB making trigger pointless. Remove that bUseTriggered crap. Mover is TriggerOpenTimed, bUseTriggered is CHEATING which I removed in MH2 types as a mod-option. Really doesn't make sense a door trigger or a monster linked with door if anyone can use GRAB for opening it. I must check the rest if I did not failed to see a left-over one.

The trigger is there for the radius so the door ca only be activated by lift riders. There's no point in allowing bots to open the gate from behind if the lift is only one way, they commit suicide if you give the order "cover me" from across the gap.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

I don't like to crow-bar the bots in forcing them to follow an exact profile.
It's more fun and better to let "the program" work, but work within the confines of it. Then manipulate the bots (map) to make it appear to be human.

So using default actors is a challenge.

You lose the point by only looking at code, use the existing code and see IF you can make it work, is the fun for me.ie defaults.

By using maxdesierability or blocked paths, you use the AI and not just forcing the bots to do the same thing every time.

Yep. I did it as a proof of concept to see if it was possible only using existing actors, as in if the mapper who did this could've worked it at all without having to bother coders by asking for specific scripts.

[sektor2111]

The trigger is there for the radius so the door ca only be activated by lift riders. There's no point in allowing bots to open the gate from behind if the lift is only one way.

False that door (and any door from "original" map) doesn't need any trigger in way how is set. ALL old player and Bot will GRAB such stupid door so called "closed".

So using default actors is a challenge.

The let' me show you that you don't really know what I'm saying
and how much you can drop "program" to trash.
Look for a map named MH-BattleCrypt and also you can hunt one called MH-GardenOfDeath. Feel free to test your skill with "default" stuff and tell me what you get (in next 10 years maybe). Aside "FindBestInventoryPath" seems to work (confirmed by other Botyman3) in the same way (nothing random) and No one cares at replacements about such affinity. In MH, The Goal is ending map not roaming useless - and we have a enough good examples.
To except you from getting mad trying and retrying I'll give Hints:
- BattleCrypt uses nasty placed door Buttons and a platform Mover which is a big one;
- GardenOfDeath has retarded geometry making DevPath to not WORK except an immediate reachable actor - Good luck with defaults...

If by chance I'll recall others I'll point them up for challenging you with default actors (meaningless challenge). If Epic were perhaps drunk at a moment stopping doing all required stuff for Bot, this doesn't mean that we must stay limited at frog's knee, unless you don't like new cute things done by Higor and which are simply brilliant.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

How come GRAB command, you mean the triggers? lol

What triggers ? Remove trigger before that gate added. Now watch Bots. They open using GRAB making trigger pointless. Remove that bUseTriggered crap. Mover is TriggerOpenTimed, bUseTriggered is CHEATING which I removed in MH2 types as a mod-option. Really doesn't make sense a door trigger or a monster linked with door if anyone can use GRAB for opening it. I must check the rest if I did not failed to see a left-over one.

If I change it the way you said here, not only I can't speed up the lift (it was faster originally, I had to reduce it preciselly because bots would have to bump the door for it to open, now the speed can be ajusted without concerns) but you also get that annoying bump encroach effect when you stand behind the door. If I were to continue messing around with this map I'd change the added door to open counter-clock wise so bots/players standing behind it don't impede the lift rider to get across. the bUseTriggered is indifferent there and can be set to false, but if I was making/remaking the map I'd keep the trigger for the reasons I've mentioned

The trigger is there for the radius so the door ca only be activated by lift riders. There's no point in allowing bots to open the gate from behind if the lift is only one way.

False that door (and any door from "original" map) doesn't need any trigger in way how is set. ALL old player and Bot will GRAB such stupid door so called "closed".

If all you want is to send bots from playerstart to monsterend, sure. The trigger is there to prevent bots to respond to the command "cover me" when you're on the other side of the lift.

[sektor2111]

What I've modified here are just a few things:
- reduced pathing;
- relocated a few Inventories to prevent bad navigation loops;
- creating timing at Lifts using MyLevel (I think MyLevel is something as a default everyone heard of it);
- removing GRAB shit from all doors and lifts - makes no sense;
- Fixing movement sound at movers;
- deleting MonsterEnd1 and Monsterend2 because are useless, MonsterEnd0 a bit far and Bigger can replace 3 idiotic actors with the same purpose: ENDING GAME;
- adding up to at least 43 creatures with a bit of challenging projectiles (defaults as well - because people can tune up defaults);
- removing almost 10-12 lava surfaces (or many) because I don't get why do we need multiple surfaces-portals.

To figure extra stuff:
- Flickering ground, looks like a sort of insanity vertex editing work was badly messing up those things. Not even breaking with a nearest brush did not help.
- Here might be required a manual work of map in text format which I don't like either.

[Barbie]

- removing almost 10-12 lava surfaces (or many) because I don't get why do we need multiple surfaces-portals.

I really can imagine what has happened there, because I experienced it: Create a sheet with the RBB and choose Brush>Add Special>Zone Portal (or similar). Hmm, nothing has changed in map? Then I'll try it again: Brush>Add Special>Zone Portal. Damn computer! Nothing changed! Maybe I should choose Brush>Add Special>Zone Portal. Bah... (and finally several Brushes share the same size and location. )

[Red_Fist]

Don't forget about trigger control, so long as they stand the lift stays, which holds it there in time for them to jump off.

You can make a nasty map in that you can block other players by standing on a lift with trigger control, for DM you get ready and load up , jump off, and drop a load of grenades if they are waiting to go up. lol. Or you can block a bunch of monsters chasing you.

Trigger control with a triggered lift, using a trigger with a tall collision, with very high up distance lifts works excellent, you just need to get the radius and fuss with delays so bots don't jump to soon, or to slow.