Permission To Use Files

[ASLYE702]

Now please someone tell me why problem to using other people stuff?
Like textures, sounds, meshes...
I need permission?
Im glad if someone maybe using my texture pack or my stuff
Do a credits in my map who make the weapons, textures, sounds, music... and who make the game?!... lol

Example contention here:
http://www.online-multigaming.com/e107_ ... .php?266.0

[Rakiayn]

Its not a problem using someones stuff.
It is however descent to ask the author for permission.
is it really that much of an effort to put up an email for asking to use the content?
just ask them, and if they dont reply you can use it ,but you have to give credit to them.
and yo dont have to give credit to the default weapons maps and textures because it is default content of the game

[Creavion]

It is very simple: Just credit them. State in your readme content x is based on the content made by person y or it is by person y. Somehow like a reference list. Unless you dont want to modify and re-release a community released map there is no need to contact the author. At least this is what I think about that. Maybe there are some very special situations where it would be appropriate to contact the author, however I dont know a fitting example right now.
If you follow this simple rule, nobody should be able to harm you in any way. The problem behind this all is most do not even write a readme and/or just take content from other community based maps. Other people might think the author created that particular content on his own. The original author would not be credited at the end.
If you take content from UT2004 itself (or UT3), the core content packages and maps .. you dont actually even have to credit epic games (as long as it stays within the Unreal related games), since this is self-explanatory somehow anyway, but most are doing this nevertheless.
In case of doubt install a pure installation of UT1, UT2004 and/or UT3 to see yourself what content you can use without to ask a community modder or mapper. Official bonuspacks are also somehow included, if they got released by Epic Games.
So it is a difference if you take content from DM-Rankin (which is included by default, stock content) or DM-Redkin, which is released as a community map (where you would have to ask Hourences actually in contrast...), although both is even by the same author but under different conditions. Last but not least there is stuff like HourIndusX. The author released it under "just credit me if you use it" conditions, again something different. Well, that`s it already.
Edit: Ok one more thing... let`s say you take and convert stuff from UT2004 for your map and somebody else would like to use it as well, that person would have actually to credit you since you had the work to convert it for the other game.
I guess now I have listed any possible rule.

[Feralidragon]

Well, let's take this analogy:
- You go to the beach, where everyone is free to play with the sand;
- You make a beautiful big sand castle which took you the entire day to make, which obviously made you very tired;
- Some lazy random dude comes and pushes you, takes your sand castle, adds just a crappy door and now says the castle is his.

How would you feel? This one was for credits, now take the next one for permissions:

- You're at home and you leave the door open;
- Some random dude enters it, eats the food which was in your fridge, and goes sleep in your bed;
- You wake him up, and then you ask: what the hell, why are you eating my food and sleeping in my bed?
- And he answers: well, you left the door open, the fridge unlocked and the bed available, so I guess I have the right to use all these for myself regardless of your opinion no?

How would you react if someone just used your stuff in your home just because you left the door open? This one was about permissions.

In a more technical view:
If I make a texture, a model, code, whatever, it's MY property, as without me it wouldn't even exist, and that property obbeys MY rules in how it should be used. So if I make a readme stating that everyone can use and stuff, then it's ok to use because I am letting you use it without asking by what I wrote.
However, if in another hand I don't include one and you know its origin or if I include one and I ask credits or/and require permissions, you just have to obey and respect it, independently of your personal opinion, as otherwise it's nothing more than theft, and it's not different from stealing stuff from the market for example.

Just also think that this stuff is made free of charge, a good share of it by people who work hard every single day of the week to have money for food, bills and to take care of his/her family, and then which may sacrifice a good share of their already really slim free time to do these things for everyone, which otherwise people would have to pay for from professionals, and the only thing they ask in return is to either ask first or to include credits.

It all goes down to values and morality, and respect for the actual work made, and the ones who don't respect it either go to jail for stealing (copyrighted stuff) or get banned (if not worse) from every possible big place they could show off their work (take Kaal for example) or other not so good consequences.
Also think that some developers may just quit doing things for a game if their work gets to be stolen.... then who will the random dude get his stuff from? The game would instantly stall and die eventually (in a very short timespan).
If the game is alive for over a decade is not thanks to the players alone, I would dare to say 75% of the credits for it would be for the hard working developers.

[Metalfist]

Well said ferali. I just don't get that people don't understand these simple rules of respect. If you would do that on a higher (industry) level, you would be kicked out. The same thing you learn at school, if you used a resource you should credit/refer to them.

[EvilGrins]

There actually is another variant to this argument, and before I point this out I'd like to stress that I credit people as much as I possibly can.

Having talked this sorta thing over with FragNBag (spelling?) and a few other mappers and skinners, some people don't feel the need to credit other people's work if they don't put whatever it is they're working on online. That if you take the work of others but only use it on your own computer then it's really not that big a deal whether or not you credit them.

Personally, I'd credit regardless... but even some of the the big time mappers don't feel it's necessary unless you put whatever you use out there for others to download.

Now please someone tell me why problem to using other people stuff?
Like textures, sounds, meshes...
I need permission?

Was this started by your post over on DestinationUnreal? The one where you ironically asked them to delete your map from their server because it wasn't done?

[Feralidragon]

Of course, messing with anything in your end alone is perfectly fine and no one can really control that up, which btw is the way many developers learned how to make things for this game.
As long as you don't release it to public or ask permission/add credits before you do so, it's ok.

[Dr.Flay]

The easiest way to deal with it (and an important bit at the end).

1) start with the original pack, not something you salvaged from your cache. It should have the author's "read-me" file. This will usually contain their limitations or "go-ahead" to do what you want.

2) If you are not changing any of the textures or items, then leave them in their original form.
The licence most authors use, is that you redistribute their work in it's original form.
Unreal is modular, and there is no need for people to make endless variations of pick-n-mix texture packs. This is the principal of object-oriented programming.

3) If you include the original files then you can include the original authors "read-me", and there is no reason why you should not include it, even if you only used 1 texture.

4) What if someone saw a texture you had modified and thought "cool, I want to make my own version". How will they do that with no idea where it came from?

My main point and issue here is... IT'S JUST DAMNED ANNOYING !
I spend too many hours of the day and night, trying to track-down the originals and full versions of many Unreal related things.

The cool collection of low-polly meshes made by William Sherrif, were a personal quest.
His stuff has been used in many maps (notably the BBST clan maps), but no one credited him so it took hunting through a University tutorial to finally make the connection between author and product.
Now the important question could finally be answered.
Is there any more of his work? and where can I get it?

If his work had been credited, then over the last 12 years we would have seen more of his models, from more of his packs, in more of our maps.

In it's simplest terms:
If the textures and stuff you want to use is good enough for you to use, then it is good enough to credit.
If you don't know who made it, then that is because someone else did not bother to credit it, and we go round in a circle.

[mister_prophet]

I've been mapping in this community for as long as it's been one and this is something that has just always happened. Back in the day players and mappers alike would often know where stuff came from and if a mapper wasn't careful citing sources that were not their own then they might be called out on it. We all borrowed here and there because mapping was learning for a lot of us and the general courtesy was that you credited people. Otherwise you might be accused of ripping. If you tried to contact someone to ask permission but they didn't respond then you credited them. If you played a map that used something cool but you did not know if it was the original source, you checked their credits and credited the original creator. Otherwise you credited where you first saw/got it from. At the end of the day, you were making the gesture. You didn't want to put something out there that used someone else's hard work from within the community because 1) you were part of the community too and 2) someone would always know anyway. Taking from stock levels was generally considered okay since we all (in theory) paid for the game and there was no mistake where THAT stuff came from. This kind of thing usually extended to prefab use, mesh implementation, music tracks, textures and texture packages, and sounds. Anyone who took something "more" than this was usually chastised for it, simply because there is only so much you can take before you aren't making anything new yourself. Exceptions were obvious cases of conversions or remakes, although poorly executed and tagged attempts at this were fair game for criticism as well.

It came to be that many mappers were happy to make it public in their released stuff that anyone was free to use any custom content they made, and other folks even made the effort just to make custom packages solely for others to use. Then you had people that didn't like sharing unless they were asked. Brush ripping without credit became a problem for some people and there was a stretch where some mappers even deleted all their brushwork in Ed's skeletal frame before releasing levels (something I always considered radical). I've never ran into a situation where someone denied use of something if asked.

I've borrowed. I've made conversions. In regards to stock content I often made mention or at least made it publicly known what was taken when speaking of the levels on forums. In regards to community stuff I have almost always gone out of my way to contact the original creator and get permission (unless permission was universally given by said author anyway) and always credited regardless. The times I haven't asked for permission were in situations where I was borrowing from trusted friends with the understanding that the trust was mutual and there were no qualms between us about sharing. This is just how I've done it for years and I'm just one mapper.

[FraGnBraG]

well said, and welcome Mr.prophet

@EvilGrins: it's "FraGnBRAG" not "FraGnBAG" ... fragging (someone) then bagging (the remains) sounds a bit messy...

[Dr.Flay]

There's a first post to be proud of
Welcome Mr.Prophet

Fragged,bagged,n,tagged
Sounds tidy to me
...tho' yeah, the baggin' bit... Ummm Grins have you got a spoon? This one's yours.
I got...a...thing that needs doing.

[papercoffee]

For E-Grins is it not allowed to run around with scissors, knives, forks and ...spoons.

Ps.: We shouldn't derail this thread too much.
...btt. please

[Rakiayn]

welcome to the forum mister_prophet.
good to see you again

[mister_prophet]

Yeah hi Been lurking here for awhile, figured was as relevant time as any to post.

[Pizzi]

What I would like to know, how many of you have really read the whole Discussion in the OmG Forum (Link in first Article)? Please Be honest...
Im just asking, cause I know Discussions like that well enough, I was on a huge Board for a long time and know how the most People think in that cases. Scan and Skim the Topic quickly and immediately write what first comes into the mind, doesn't matter if its right or wrong.
As for me, I will not say anything to that Topic again, all I needed to say about that I have done in OmG Forum.