Collab Mapping #01 - PHASE 3

[Creavion]

Ridiculous. It looks like I have more experience in certain matters. I do not think I have to justify myself.

See it from other other side: Some people see things through rose-coloured glasses only, seem to have an endless amount of optimism, like "yay, my UT map/mod can be in development for the next 20 years, doesn`t matter, nothing will change, they will all wait for my release". Should I feel sorry for knowing how things are developing?
If somebody starts nowadays a big freaking single player mod for example with nearly non-existing experience in modding, how do you think this will end up? The thing most likely will never see the day of light.
Certain people have to understand UT is over 10 years old. If things are NOT progressing fast enough in front of fans (regular updates), it will end up as BULLSHIT. It hurts the community a freaking lot, if people are holding stuff back or mean to thing "I can add an other bunch of maps or features. Map/Mod will be delayed for other XX years." What is the point of this? This does not help anybody, neither the author or the fans.
Examples of how it is done right: Naliweapons by Ferali and Foodfight by papers team. But these are only two examples. Most other misplan their work. I could call examples here, but I forbear from doing it, since I would not change anything. I also try to finsh and release a map SOON, not develop something for people which are not there anymore at some point in the future. UT is not a holy piece of software able to survice until the next Ice Age. Its survival mostly depends on the amount of active modders and mappers which of course release stuff. Everything will end at some point. Think a little bit about it and you might see, I am right with this stuff.

BTW: Dave agreed with me anyway in these matters. This case is already closed.

[TheIronKnuckle]

Ridiculous. It looks like I have more experience in certain matters. I do not think I have to justify myself.

This is something no one with any respect for anyone should ever say. Such an elitist position!

UT has been dead for years. I know what you're saying with respect to certain mods (Jailbreak 2004 patch c has been complete for years upon years by now and never released for no good reason). But I think you're the one wearing rose tinted glasses if you think people are going to be able to churn out content at a rate comparable to the golden days. People don't have time and never really did. And now there are a lot less people around. I'm happy that there's stuff being worked on at all. They can take their time, just so long as there's an understanding that once they've finally lost the will to keep working on what they're doing they release what they've got.

I don't really disagree with anything you say. I'm just pissed and always have been at your seemingly eternally negative way of seeing everything. Check out your signature: You're releasing an epic map to the community, but can't do it without saying "Any direct practical (fixing, help them with other edits) mapping support for my part is suspended (with expection of some good friends of course) from now on. People are simply unwilling to learn and remember about giving credits and the meaning behind it."

You make good maps, you have valid opinions and I reckon you're a good person, but damn... that negativity is annoying Personally I think a positive outlook will go much further towards keeping the community alive than people releasing heaps of maps. It's a small community now, can't afford to be getting into feuds

[EvilGrins]

Ridiculous. It looks like I have more experience in certain matters. I do not think I have to justify myself.
BTW: Dave agreed with me anyway in these matters. This case is already closed.

Not questioning your contributions to the community etc, but almost every post I see you make is cynical, antagonistic or pessimistic.

That's just part of his charm.

UT has been dead for years.

Clearly you do not have a good appreciation of zombie films. Or vampire for that matter.

UT is not dead. Admittedly ut99 has hit a lull but there's active servers for it and people that still work on stuff for it. The other UTs, ut2003 & ut2004 & UT3 are still doing things with more stuff being devloped for them.

The point is, drop the negativity. If you don't agree with the guy above, fine. There's no need to explode outward with any hostility.

Now, you go extend that other person a hug.

[AlCapowned]

Ridiculous. It looks like I have more experience in certain matters. I do not think I have to justify myself.

If nothing was ever announced before being completed, the community would appear to be completely dead. While there are some people like makemeunreal who are clearly not doing anything with their projects, there are others who are at least trying to release something. They give other Unreal/UT fans something to look forward to instead of having them hope that someone, somewhere is working on something.

If you really feel so strongly about this, shouldn't you have announced Vandora's Secret Passage as being cancelled?

[Creavion]

No, I already stated more than enough, I have no business with single player anymore. I know some less people (a very few amount) were sad about it, but nevertheless most of both sp communities gave me the cold shoulder, both on their own way (I already told you via PM several weeks ago). I really don`t need this.

Anyway: The only reason why I was annoyed was because an already finished product was about to hold back for apparently no reason (now we know the story is missing ... well that`s ok).

Actually UT is pretty much dead, means the acitivity is on a very low level. However it seems impossible to "kill" it completly (at least for the next years I would say). But it does not change the fact, that it is not very helpful to develop bigger things which might countless of years without any hope of success. So if you are not involved in Food Fights team or you are somebody like Ferali, then the best way to keep the game alive is to pull out smaller projects and maps, since the remaining modders nowadays have surely gotten older with way less available time for modding. So either you know what you are doing and you are motivated enough as well as having time enough or stay well grounded. Should actually be as clear as day.

Well and several single player mods are now for duke-nukem-amount of years in development. Not any helpful for anybody! This is what I mean with "well grounded". The golden times are over but people do not want to realize.

(Jailbreak 2004 patch c has been complete for years upon years by now and never released for no good reason).

Well even if you think completly different in these matters, at least you know what I mean and what actually really pisses me off.
I remember telling several years somebody about our success of our mappack with the DL count after a few days and he LOLed very much, telling me, several ut3 maps have reached way higher dl-counts than our entire mappack. Yes, he was right, but considering UT3 had a very low span of life...

[papercoffee]

The story is nearly done ...

[UnrealGGecko]

@papercoffee: That's great news!

@editor Dave: I should've suggested this much sooner but... In the DOM version, would it be really time consuming if you would add the FoT Control Points in there? I think that they can be used as triggers, too.

@everyone: tomorrow's the big day, guys!

[editor Dave]

@editor Dave: I should've suggested this much sooner but... In the DOM version, would it be really time consuming if you would add the FoT Control Points in there? I think that they can be used as triggers, too.

What is the difference to the normal ones?
Actually, I won't have time to include them until tomorrow. If these FoT domination spots will wind up the whole gameplay, I consider adding them, but I doubt it.
Secondly, if not an official rule, but we haven't used out-of-my-leveled custom content. Which is probably a very strong point, isn't it?

[UnrealGGecko]

Well, gameplay-wise there's no difference, but they look cool and have special light actors that change color to that which team owns the CP (for example: you want to make another DOM version of deck16, only this one would use the FoT CP's (or is it called SabbyCP?). You place the Points where you like (like the sniper spot) just like the normal ones. Now replace a few light actors with the new ones, ''string them up'' and that's it. Now when, say, the red team takes control, the not only the CP changes, but light's you replaced change color as well.)
How's that for explaination.

Although, I fully understand if you're not going to use these, since replasing about 1/3 of the lighting in one day is deffinetly NOT worth it.

Best example: DOM-FoT-WateryFowls by SabbathCat/JohnnySix.

[AlCapowned]

No, I already stated more than enough, I have no business with single player anymore. I know some less people (a very few amount) were sad about it, but nevertheless most of both sp communities gave me the cold shoulder, both on their own way (I already told you via PM several weeks ago). I really don`t need this.

That doesn't mean you can't show the people that had nothing to do with giving you the cold shoulder a bit of common courtesy. All you would have to do is put [cancelled] in the title of your thread. Doing otherwise is about as egotistical as if I were to stop updating anything here just because I received a low number of responses to my content and one of the threads was spammed with a stupid meme. If I stopped working on anything, I would at least let people know about it.

Well and several single player mods are now for duke-nukem-amount of years in development. Not any helpful for anybody! This is what I mean with "well grounded". The golden times are over but people do not want to realize.

Like I said before, the larger projects give people something to look forward to. People do realize that the gold age of UT is over, and they have for a long time. Otherwise, more huge projects like Firestorm would be announced left and right.

[FraGnBraG]

... light actors ... ''string them up'' and that's it. Now when, say, the red team takes control, the not only the CP changes, but light's you replaced change color as well...

well i'll add this - the DOM points look pretty good, and I used these in the original DOM-FoT-FallenAngel-beta map... Trouble is the dom lights caused a great deal of sudden Lag when they would switch - I never figured out why either - but it was bad enough that I had to just use normal lights... I think I only had about 16 lights per DOM point, which didn't seem like all that much... just sayin'

[Creavion]

Dude. I left the whole sp community for years already. Telling them something like that is kinda like "Hey guys, the world is not flat... its a globe".
But you can tell them, "if you really feel so strongly about this" (awesome sounding choice of words BTW) ...
But in fact I made a terrible mistake. I tried to justify myself. A very bad mistake. People always arguing against something like that. Next time I just follow the "I simply do it" way. Easier and more relaxing, I think...
And if you are not against it, I would like to end this now. Tomorrow BTW is also the day of Diablo III.

[editor Dave]

@GEx: As you might have seen in the final map, I didn't change the spots. You have already mentioned one of the reasons: It would've been too much work to change the light actors in just one day. Aside the argument about only using retail content, I would've changed the light sources as well, probably ending up in adding some new lights to make the new effect more obvious or realistic. This would've changed what the authors of the rooms intended to build and would result in detroying the indefeasibility of the original rooms.
But I think it is fine now, too